Previous Model vs New Model

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Yavanius
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Message 1676 - Posted: 8 Jul 2022, 5:47:28 UTC

Jesús,

Can you simplify the differences (layman terms) the difference between the new model and the previous model?

At a glance, it seems the newer model allows a greater range of options in your experiments than the previous model. it's a bit late, so the mind isn't quite grasping the difference between the models. :)

TIA,

Yav
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Message 1687 - Posted: 11 Jul 2022, 15:40:07 UTC - in response to Message 1676.  

The difference between the previous model and the new one is very small. The structure of the model is the same. The model is composed by currents that go through the cardiac cell membrane. We have modified the parameters of two currents to solve some issues we found (same mathematical expression but with different constants). Now we need to compensate this modifications to get the whole model working well. This is the objective of the simulations that you are running.

We have also added more parameters to test more experimental protocols. Now we are testing 45 protocols that permit us to check more than 100 markers... Many more information to try to fit the model to the experimental data.

We have also other markers that we are not using now. We will use them for the validation of the model... in the next stages.

I don't know if this explanation is simple enough or if it is what you were expecting. If not, I will try again 😅.

Best,
Jesús.

==============================

La diferencia entre el modelo anterior y el nuevo es muy pequeña. La estructura del modelo es la misma. El modelo está compuesto por corrientes que atraviesan la membrana celular cardíaca. Hemos modificado los parámetros de dos corrientes para resolver algunos problemas que encontramos (misma expresión matemática pero con diferentes constantes). Ahora necesitamos compensar estas modificaciones para que todo el modelo funcione bien. Este es el objetivo de las simulaciones que estáis ejecutando.

También hemos agregado más parámetros para probar más protocolos experimentales. Ahora estamos probando 45 protocolos que nos permiten comprobar más de 100 marcadores... Mucha más información para intentar ajustar el modelo a los datos experimentales.

También tenemos otros marcadores que no estamos usando ahora. Los utilizaremos para la validación del modelo... en las próximas etapas.

No sé si esta explicación es lo suficientemente simple o si es lo que esperabas. Si no, lo intentaré de nuevo 😅.

Un saludo,
Jesús.
Jesús Carro
Universidad San Jorge
@InSilicoHeart
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Message 1690 - Posted: 12 Jul 2022, 4:19:43 UTC

Assuming you can continue to receive funding, do you have an idea of how long DENIS models will run? Or does the nature of the project allow to be open-ended, that is, is there a finite set of parameters or is there an endless amount of models that can be run?
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[VENETO] boboviz

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Message 1693 - Posted: 12 Jul 2022, 7:29:12 UTC - in response to Message 1690.  

Assuming you can continue to receive funding, do you have an idea of how long DENIS models will run? Or does the nature of the project allow to be open-ended, that is, is there a finite set of parameters or is there an endless amount of models that can be run?


Good point.
And, another question: how our simulations are used? In vitro tests?
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Message 1701 - Posted: 13 Jul 2022, 15:32:37 UTC

No, I'm not sure for how long. Now we have simulations for months (probably), but this is not an open-ended. However, as long as we continue to have ideas in mind, we will continue to run things here.

If for a period of time we have to stop because there is nothing to simulate, we will notify you.

On the other hand, I think I don't understand the question of the invitro tests. Your simulations are used in the computer to get the best parameters, and later they will be compared with results of experiments. We are not going to carry the experiments, they are done and the results are published in scientific journals.
Jesús Carro
Universidad San Jorge
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[VENETO] boboviz

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Message 1711 - Posted: 14 Jul 2022, 12:17:42 UTC - in response to Message 1701.  

On the other hand, I think I don't understand the question of the invitro tests. Your simulations are used in the computer to get the best parameters, and later they will be compared with results of experiments. We are not going to carry the experiments, they are done and the results are published in scientific journals.


I don't understand.
We are simulating the response of heart's cells to some chemical compounds (or their combinations). Is it right?
So, who make the "in vitro" (or, later, "in vivo") experiments to validate our simulations? Are not you?
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Message 1724 - Posted: 15 Jul 2022, 8:03:47 UTC - in response to Message 1711.  

Hi boboviz,
We are working in the oposite direction. You are not simulating the effect of chemical compounds (drugs) to predict the behavior of the cardiac cells. We have experiments (e.g. from the University of of Szeged, and other from articles published in scientific journals) with which we can know how a cell responds to different drugs or situations. We need a model that is able to represent these results. There are some parameters that we can not measure in a cell, and we are trying to find the best value of them. So, we are simulating many combinations of these parameters to try to find the ones that better represent the experimental results.

In the process of fitting the model, we are not using all the data that we have. We have some data that later we will use to validate the result. The list of experiments is large, but, if you want I can post it.

Later, we will use the model to study pathologies and to try to predict what could happend, and yes in this case we will need experimental validation and we will need to colaborate with other groups.

Best,
Jesús.
Jesús Carro
Universidad San Jorge
@InSilicoHeart
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Message 1731 - Posted: 16 Jul 2022, 7:22:56 UTC - in response to Message 1724.  

Now it's very clear!
Thank you!!!
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Message 1733 - Posted: 16 Jul 2022, 16:04:12 UTC - in response to Message 1701.  

Good Morning.

So, I know it's early, but your current and beta models, have you noticed any differences (good and/or bad) over your original model?

Do you anticipate the volunteers needing to run the original model for comparison purposes?
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Message 1740 - Posted: 18 Jul 2022, 8:42:56 UTC - in response to Message 1733.  

So, I know it's early, but your current and beta models, have you noticed any differences (good and/or bad) over your original model?

We are testing the model with you because we have found good differences. We hope, at the end of the optimization to get good differences in others aspects, but at this point it is early and we will have to wait.

Do you anticipate the volunteers needing to run the original model for comparison purposes?

Yes! The previous model and other models previously published 🙂. We are preparing those simulations, we hope to start launching them shortly (1 or 2 weeks).
Jesús Carro
Universidad San Jorge
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Message 1744 - Posted: 19 Jul 2022, 13:59:37 UTC

I noticed a variance in the names of the tasks, usually 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000, 6000, 10000 or no number. Is there anything specific between these tasks?
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Message 1746 - Posted: 20 Jul 2022, 6:29:27 UTC - in response to Message 1744.  

You are right, there is a bit of information in the names of the tasks. We usually call them with the first author of the protocol we are using or the name of the protocol. In some cases, we need to simulate the same protocol but varing a parameter. For example, in some cases we simulate the same protocol but stimulating the cell with different periods: 1000ms, 2000ms, 3000ms, etc. This permits to evaluate the model under different circunstances and to compare with the experimental results.

Best,
Jesús
Jesús Carro
Universidad San Jorge
@InSilicoHeart
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Message boards : Science : Previous Model vs New Model